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Brandon Fugal(Skinwalker Ranch の現在の所有者)のインタビューの書き起こし (全体)

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(2020-04-13) part-2 を追加。


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・誰一人として読まないのはわかっているが、貴重な記事だし、消える可能性があるので全文を引用しておく。

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part-1


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Transcript: Skinwalker Ranch Owner & Real Estate Mogul, Brandon Fugal ? Part 1 ? “I Think We Truly May Have The Greatest Science Project Of Our Time Here”
31 MAR , 2020

“If our project, if our investigation, ends up proving that we aren’t alone in the universe or our reality is a lot more complex than conventional physics would lead us to believe, I think we truly may have the greatest science project of our time here.” ~Brandon Fugal

By Joe Murgia ? @ufojoe11 on Twitter

For a brief history of the ranch, check out this History.com article. Wanna delve deeper? I suggest you start out by reading this recent article by MJ Banias and watch this excellent lecture by award-winning, investigative reporter, George Knapp. You should also read the book, “Hunt for the Skinwalker ” by Knapp and biochemist, Colm Kelleher and watch the documentary, “Hunt for the Skinwalker” by filmmaker and investigator, Jeremy Corbell.

For those of you who don’t have time for all that, Skinwalker Ranch, located in northeastern Utah, is the most scientifically studied paranormal hotspot in the world. It was the catalyst for the U.S. government’s AAWSAP study into UFOs and paranormal phenomena. For more on that aspect, check out this fantastic article by researcher, Tim McMillan.

~~~

Coast To Coast AM ? March 29th, 2020

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2020/03/29

George Knapp (GK): Good evening everyone. You are definitely in the right place at the right time tonight. This is Coast to Coast AM. So we’re all kind of on edge a bit. More than a little bit. We’re virused out. Tonight we take a break from all the trouble and tension that hangs over all of us and take a little trip to a place called Skinwalker Ranch. You’ve heard me yammer about it now and then, here on the radio and elsewhere, over the years. I’ve been chasing that story since the mid 1990s and can say with no exaggeration at all, that it is likely the weirdest place in the world. The most intensely studied, paranormal and UFO hotspot in history, with a documented presence of something else, that dates back centuries.

Some have some have called it a paranormal, Disneyland, you name it. It’s got UFOs, poltergeist activity, Bigfoot, mysterious creatures, disembodied voices, animal mutilations, orbs, lights, holes in the sky, all of the above and more. Last night, the TV show, “Ancient Aliens,” profiled the place in advance of a new television series that debuts on History Channel this Tuesday, “Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch.”

Earlier this month, the identity of the ranch’s owner was made public in a print media article. His name is Brandon Fugal, a highly successful businessman in Utah who purchased the ranch back in 2016, from Las Vegas space entrepreneur, Robert Bigelow. Brandon wanted to keep a low profile while he and his team initiated their own research project. And while his name was known to a few people, it wasn’t shared with the larger public. Well, the cat is definitely out of the bag now and after me bugging him for quite a while, he agreed to come on the program tonight to speak openly and frankly about what is going at that ranch. So, we’re going to cut to the chase and get right to it.

But first I need to tell you about the second half of the program tonight because it is also a whopper. Two years ago to the day, Brandon invited me to return to the ranch and bring along some friends. One of them is filmmaker Jeremy Corbell, who’s been our guest on this program multiple times. Matt Adams, my photographer. ATS founder, Mark Allen as well. But the guy who chartered the jet to pick us all up in Las Vegas is one of the best known stars in the world, British singer Robbie Williams. He’s sold tens of millions of records. He sells out stadiums in Europe, Asia, South America, and last year he became a headliner here in Las Vegas. He’s always had an interest In strange subjects and the first time I met him about a decade ago, we talked for hours about Skinwalker Ranch and we’re still talking about it. Including about experiences. Robbie’s had through his life and yes, something happened at the ranch as well. Finally, after years of me asking him, he said yes. So we got him to come on Coast. Robbie and Jeremy, join us at midnight. And you know, this has the making of something epic, or outrageous, or more likely, both. Brandon Fugal, Robbie Williams, Jeremy Corbell, Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch…shazam!

Plop yourself down someplace comfy, turn down the lights and turn up the radio. In a moment, the owner of Skinwalker Ranch, the weirdest place in the world, Brandon Fugal.

I’m George Knapp and this is Coast to Coast AM. Here we go. Brandon Fugal is a Utah based, real estate mogul and tech investor, who is the new owner of the infamous Skinwalker Ranch, a hotspot for paranormal and UFO activity. I’m not kidding. He has a very high profile in Utah. Knows all the power players, manages a huge portfolio of properties and investments. So why dive into the deep end of the weirdness pool? We’re about to find out. Until very recently, his identity was kept very quiet. But now it’s a matter of public record. From the first time he purchased the property in 2016, he has been, to me and others, very helpful, cooperative and accommodating for anybody who is pursuing an understanding of what’s underway at the ranch. And I’m really jazzed to finally get him here on Coast. Welcome, Brandon.

Brandon Fugal (BF): Hey! Good evening. It’s all for you, George. And it’s a pleasure to join you.

GK: You know, the most obvious question, I guess. Are you crazy? I mean, you’re respected. You have a good reputation. You have a good life. You interact with movers and shakers. I tried to get ahold of you the other night, you were on the phone with the governor. You had to know that something like this would put all of that at risk. Why do it?

BF: Yeah, it’s a good question. Hence, [I’m] quite busy with a lot of business interests right now. But I really see this, this ranch and this project as the greatest science project of our time. I see this as a unique opportunity to delve into topics that really go back to the very heart of who we are and what our place in the Universe is. And I guess to tie that into my day job of focusing on the commercial real estate market, you could call it the most intriguing real estate play of our time, as well, Although I’ve had had zero interest in doing anything to monetize the ranch and have yet to really take any money or even a dime relative to, you know, the ranch and our activities there.

This has truly been a very scientific enterprise and kind of a New Age of Discovery for us.

You know, I’ve been there a lot of times. It’s a beautiful place. I always feel good there outside of a few tense moments here and there out in the darkness of that middle homestead. But from a pure business perspective, does the purchase make sense? I mean, it’s a beautiful piece of property…you’ve even added to the size of it. But if it wasn’t a haunted UFO spot, would it make sense for you to buy it?

BF: No. In fact, with the controversy, it’s arguable that it’s worth less than market. A lot of people see it as a risk because of the liability associated with the property. But George, you touched on something just a moment ago that really caught me off guard when I first flew out there to actually conduct a site tour of the property and look at it. And it was the fact that it is truly one of the most striking landscapes that I’ve ever seen in the country. It really is right out of a John Wayne movie set. It looks like it’s right out of “Westworld,” if you’re familiar with that show. It really has it all. It has a beautiful mesa that runs the entire expanse of the property. Water and rivers that run through it, and, of course, these haunting old homesteads that were pioneer homesteads that are still, to a degree, standing and really relics of a time gone by and and hold some real mystery.

GK: Can you share with us how you connected with the previous owner, Robert Bigelow and walk us through the process of what you discussed, how much detail you went into, what he was willing to share with you about what had happened there?

BF: You bet. You know, it’s interesting. I’ve been involved with a number of enterprises outside of commercial real estate. And I had one particular enterprise that I was involved with a decade ago that was testing various theories and whatnot. And the science advisors associated with that company, at the time, that were advising us, unbeknownst to me, were also close confidants of a prominent businessman and billionaire aerospace visionary. That’s Robert Bigelow, out of Las Vegas.

And you know that effort ended up concluding a number of years ago, in fact, back in 2013 2014. Nut I maintain my relationship with these individuals. And, you know, we had really built a relationship of trust between us and I was surprised to receive a call from one of them about four and a half, five years ago, asking me if I was familiar with the ranch. And it was funny. I really had very little knowledge of the ranch other than just a passing, you know, curiosity. I, of course, read about it in the papers here in Utah, and it had achieved some notoriety, but it wasn’t something that I hadn’t really researched. And so when they brought it to my attention and the fact that they were advising Mr. Bigelow and that there was a potential opportunity for a meeting with him and that he may consider either a partnership or even a transition of ownership to someone else and asked me if I would be interested in taking that meeting, of course. I jumped at it. I thought it was intriguing. And just the opportunity to meet Mr. Bigelow was was worth the trip, of course.

So quickly, I found myself flying into Vegas, and we ended up spending a wonderful day together. I really was impressed with his operation, with his vision, and in a lot of ways, he and I share similar backgrounds. You know, really anchored in real estate development. Different sides of the spectrum, but still some of the same core foundational motivations. And and we ended up spending a surprising amount of time together and I think built a relationship of trust that ended up really leading to my acquisition of the property.

He really wasn’t looking to sell the property. I want to make that clear to everyone. He was a little bit reserved, open. I think his advisors were encouraging him because the real science discovery that had occurred out there, it had kind of gone into a little bit of a coma, if you will, and it slowed down. And I think he was focusing a lot of his interests on, you know, the private space race and his space habitats program. But I think when he learned that I really did, you know, have an interest in exploring, you know, a stewardship associated with the property and carrying on and really taking to the next level, what he had accomplished over the last the previous twenty years, I think we really hit it off and that struck a chord with him.

So it didn’t happen overnight. We had a lot of months of discussion between attorneys and whatnot and really the day that we were preparing to close and came out and inspected the property, it was quite momentous. Not something that I had planned for in my life. Again, I’ve never really delved into this realm. I think it’s important to note that I had never, you know, had a UFO experience, never claimed that I’d seen a ghost in my life or anything of the sort. And so I approached the property really, as a healthy skeptic. I actually thought that it was more than likely that we would end up debunking the property in the process of carrying forward an investigation and really coming up with a more prosaic explanation for what had been observed there. I thought there’s at least a 95% probability that that will be the case. And so we embarked on this new…this journey about four years ago, secretly with my team. And started laying the groundwork for what we have today.

GK: At some point, you decided to pull the trigger. And at some point, you must have had a heart to heart with yourself, with your family, with your advisors about the risks. Because as I said, I mean, you travel and in high level circles of trust. Reputation is very important in your business. You know, Salt Lake City, Utah, it’s a conservative and religious state. This could go blow up in your face in dozens of different ways.

BF: Right. Yeah, good points. And you know, it was with heavy heart that I finally, kind of did agree to come forward this past year and really opened up to it. As you probably recall, George, a couple of years ago, I wouldn’t even consider coming forward, I didn’t want my identity revealed in any way. I wanted to keep my ownership of the property private and confidential and had no interest in any type of fame, notoriety or any monetary benefit that may ensue. I mean, I had no interest in opening this up to the public and still have no interest in really monetizing the property in those types of ways. And so it has been quite a journey. But it felt like it was time to come forward and we’re now entering the next phase of our investigation and have a great team.

And really an investigative effort that caught the attention of the History Channel. With History on board and them really adhering to my demands, which were really number one, no fabrication, has to be absolute truth. I think we’ve all seen enough ghost hunter shows and whatnot that bit of…I think, grown tiring and I think a lot of people are tired of blurry footage and being lead along. And I thought, you know, we want to just lay all of the facts out, as far as what we’ve observed out there and experienced and really make it available to the public.

I’ve never really had the intention of keeping it secret, although I’ve wanted to protect my privacy. I’ve always felt like this is a stewardship and the information, the intelligence that may be gleaned, by virtue of our investigation on the property, I felt, was something that should be shared with the general public. And I’ve always had a real collaborative approach to business that I think has translated into our current operation and our current investigation out at the ranch.

GK: Well, we’re definitely going to dig into that and prior secrecy surrounding the ranch, later on in the program. One more question about sort of the business decision. After you make the purchase, and Adamantium, this company, without links to your name, is out there in the public. Everyone is speculating who’s the real owner and some people thought it was still Bigelow who, you know, had just hid it under a shell corporation. A lot of other names came up. It was Tom DeLonge. It was Robbie Williams. It was Mark Allen. It was Tony Robbins. It was Elon Musk. You must have got a chuckle as these names would pop up over the years.

BF: Yeah, it was amusing. It was great to watch the speculation and at the same time, the really laying out our program.

GK: So you had to have a plan going in. How long did it take to develop and who helped you develop that? Is it Eric Bard?

BF: Yeah, Eric has been the principal scientist and investigator since since really the first days of taking over the stewardship of the property. But it has evolved over time. I think our effort can be probably best described, for the first several years, as an observational science effort. And I think setting up the surveillance platforms, the, you know, everything from the thermographic imaging night vision, you know, we’ve got a full FLIR system out there, along with the other technology platforms that have been developed,. It has all come, you know, layer by layer and Eric has been key to really not only putting that together but really administering the science platform and ultimately partnering with others like Dr. Travis Taylor, this past year. You know, early on, we had a participant who was really my trusted, drone surveillance expert. One of the things we did right off the bat was really conduct regular drone surveillance of the property and really mapped the whole property out in detail. And his name is Eric Bertenshaw. And one of the things that surprised me was what started showing up in broad daylight in not only the drone footage, but also, you know, video and photographic evidence that he was gathering out there on the ranch within, we’re talking within weeks of acquiring the property. It caught me off guard, and was unexpected. AndI really thank him for, I think, giving us those first glimpses of what appeared to be high strangeness on the property.

But since then, you know, pulling the whole team together, you know, our ranch Community Relations Liaison or manager is Jim Morse, a gentleman that has been a mentor to me since I really was eighteen years old. He was my first big developer client in 1991, when I was jumping in the commercial real estate business, focusing on leasing and selling office buildings. And Jim was developing a number of buildings in our market and seemed to be the perfect fit to engage and bring out to the ranch, to help with the community relations aspect and really setting the stage. Eric Bard, of course, our physicist and principal investigator, I’ve had a relationship with for a decade. Truly the most brilliant scientist I’ve ever worked with, and he’s unique in that he has…he’s an inventor. He’s really kind of a real life MacGyver. Or Q. In fact, we call him our Q out there because he’s a real innovator. And he has a track record for taking innovations and bringing them to commercialization in our market and we’ve seen how…

GK: I’ll tell you what, Brandon, we need to we need to interrupt you to take a break here. Brandon Fugal, the owner of Skinwalker Ranch is our guest. When we come back, we’re gonna jump into some of the incidents and examples and phenomena that convinced him that something really strange was going on there.

Brandon Fugal is my guest tonight. He’s the new owner of Skinwalker Ranch. As we just heard, a lot of thought went into the purchase of the ranch. It’s risky for him being in the position that he’s in. All kinds of pitfalls and problems that could pop up and hurt his reputation. But he decided to go for it. And pretty quickly, after buying the property and installing cameras and drones and personnel on the on the property, he started seeing stuff, images of things that would appear in the sky and elsewhere on the property. And what was it, though, that convinced him, “Hey, this is more than just strange objects flying around in the sky.” At what point did it really grab his attention? That’s where we’re going next on Coast to Coast AM.

So Brandon, you and your team set up shop, you go back and forth, visiting the property. There on the property, you set up cameras, you have drones, things start popping up. Is there one incident that happened to convince you, holy cow, this might be real? Or was it a cumulative kind of effect?

BF: No, it was funny. Even with the images that we captured in broad daylight…and a lot of the video that we are taking, as well as some of the the other anomalies that are present on the property, I wasn’t really convinced until probably six months into it, which I think would surprise most people. I had owned the property for six months and had been officiating over this whole new program out at the ranch and investing the resources to really expand, you know, the platforms that I’ve mentioned. And about six months into it, after having seen nothing with my own eyes, I was still pretty skeptical. I was still trying to assign more of a natural or more of a prosaic, or at least a man-made explanation to what we were seeing.

But I had one particular day where we were hosting a group out there, six months after purchasing it, and had an experience. And again, this is in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon, and saw something over the mesa, right ahead of us, with multiple witnesses at my side, that completely changed my perspective. And it’s something you just can’t unsee something like that. And having that experience, which it’s really spanned about twenty seconds, changed my perspective. It opened my mind and I could no longer really play coy or plead ignorance when it came to the reality of the phenomenon, really what we’re seeing out there. I went from being a healthy skeptic to, I guess what a lot of people would call an experiencer, overnight. But it came without any warning and was completely unexpected. In fact, I had just pretty all but assumed that I would never see anything when I was out there because every time I was out there, it was just this peaceful, pastoral landscape. And I thought, you know, those experiences must be reserved for other people, imagined or real.

GK: So, can you describe it? Is it a craft? Is it big, small, or can you not go into details?

BF: No. I’ll go into a little detail for you. I think we cover a lot of this in the investigative series and go into more detail. But it was without question a craft. And was right there. It wasn’t just a little light in the sky, or a blip. It was literally, right in front of us, hovering over the mesa and moved in just split-second speed. And was probably estimated around forty, fifty feet long, gray silverish. And was what I think a lot of people would describe as kind of your typical UFO or disc-like object. And it was shocking. And to have multiple witnesses there…and I think it’s important to note, I’ve never met these men before that day and I haven’t spoken to them since. The only people that have really spoken to them have been my scientists, most notably Eric Bard, who really took their witness testimony independent of mine, to see if…really all of our accounts squared. Which, surprisingly they did.

So it was a real key moment and kind of set me on, I think, a little bit more aggressive course to find out really what was going on, out at that property.

GK: You know, so much of the feedback I get in talking about the ranch and writing about it, is negative. You know, people are like, “Ahh, that makes no sense. There’s no evidence, there’s no proof.” You know, you try to explain that, you know, the history of the ranch, the skinwalker legends that surround it. That the trickster aspect of it, that whatever is out there is tricky. I mean, it’s elusive. It doesn’t want to necessarily be documented all the time. And a lot of the most dramatic incidents that had been reported by NIDS and BAASS, and we can get into that, over the twenty years that Bigelow had the property, you know, all you’ve got is the eyewitness testimony. You’re saying though, you’ve been able to document this that there is evidence that people are going to be able to see.

BF: You bet. You bet. And that has been a pleasant surprise. To be able to document it, have videographic evidence, matched with, you know, electromagnetic signatures in some cases. And, you know, other correlating evidence and witness testimony, has really made, I think, our investigation not only compelling, but it’s differentiated from anything else that has come before, at least that I’m aware of, in the public domain. And we continue to gather and archive evidence on a regular basis. But I want you to know, it’s completely unpredictable. And whatever is going on, has the jump on us. If I had a dollar for every time our surveillance systems were meddled with or damaged or had strange strange things happen to, you know, the various sensors that we have in cameras, I could go buy ten of these ranches. It’s mind boggling and very frustrating. In fact, that’s one thing that we didn’t anticipate…was how difficult it would be to keep systems online and to be able to capture the phenomenon in action. Because there are some funky things going on out there.

GK: Well, that’s the history under Bob Bigelow ? NIDS, BAASS ? they would have equipment that failed, compasses would spin, cameras go out, batteries die, vehicles die, over and over again. And people say, “Well, where’s the proof for that?” Well, you know, how do you prove that stuff? It is, you know, there is, do you believe…

BF: George, you have a camera crew following the people. I mean, you have to have a disciplined effort. And thankfully, I mean, I kind of relented and, you know, was willing to have cameras follow my poor team, which none of these guys really, especially initially, enjoyed being on camera. But I think, you know, investing the time and really putting in the effort of having constant surveillance and, you know, videotaping going on. So you never know. And sorry to interject. But I think that’s one thing that probably, again, differentiates us from what has gone on before…is we really made an effort, especially this last year, to constantly record day to day what was happening with the team.

GK: I think the Bigelow team came to sort of a conclusion that whatever you see out there, is what it allows you to see. And I’d like to get your take on whether you think there is an intelligence operating there, whether the trickster aspects that have been reported, are accurate, in your experience, or not?

BF: Yes, I would say all of the above. And I would, you know, I would say that there are no firm conclusions that have been reached. I think that what we’re seeing comes from any number of different points of origins, agendas and it’s not any one type of phenomena. I mean, it’s a whole host of, or a diversity, or as Eric Bard would say, a cornucopia, a constellation of different events and anomalies that we are witnessing and recording. And it’s tough to categorize it.

GK: Well, give me a list of the possibilities. What is it? I mean, it’s intelligent. It’s intelligent and it’s manipulative and it’s not us. Or is it?

BF: Well, you know, my motivation in purchasing the property, to a large degree, was really driven by the belief that we may not be alone in the Univers. That in not being alone, it opens up all sorts of opportunities and it’s quite, I think, inspiring. I think it doesn’t necessarily need to mean that, you know, little green men are visiting us or people from other planets or worlds. It could be other dimensions of reality. And I think that a good explanation for what we are observing out there may be interdimensional phenomena. Jacques Vallee speaks often of, you know, the interdimensional theory underpinning a lot of the sightings and the phenomena that have been observed. And I think that’s one, potential explanation for what is happening. I mean, everything from wormholes to the physics that would enable that kind of passage between dimensions or worlds that I think you see. Really theorized in, you know, string and M-theory, maybe at play out here on the ranch. So I think there are probably a number of different explanations and again, different points of origin and agendas associated with what we’re observing.

GK: Let’s talk about risk and danger. You know, during the BAASS and NIDS periods, there were all kinds of crazy stories that there had been a firefight with aliens on the property and guards had been killed and things of that sort, which was complete nonsense. But there are some pretty dramatic incidents, credible witnesses, scientists who have said they’ve encountered whatever it is out there and they were intimidated, frightened, scared, had their minds taken over or physically frozen. Were there physical effects on the people, your team members, visitors, others who’d been out there in the time that you’ve owned the property?

BF: Unfortunately, yes. Acute medical episodes have been a reality associated with involvement with the ranch and we’ve had a number of, of our team, that have ended up in the hospital. In fact, our superintendent Thomas Winterton, who is amazing, who is really the backbone of this operation and investigation.

GK: Yeah, he’s a good due. A good dude.

BF: Yeah, he ended up in the hospital for a week. And, you know, he’s still, you know, suffering repercussions from the injuries he sustained, which I want to emphasize that even the doctors, the attending physicians, and those who have consulted on the case, have stated they remain baffled. There is no real conventional explanation relative to his injuries. So it has been very serious. That’s why we’ve had security out there. I mean, my head of security, who is a licensed security specialist and expert with the state of Utah, his name is Bryan Arnold, we call him Dragon, is someone who really takes the the physical threat and the danger quite seriously. And he heads up our security effort to try to, I think, maintain certain safety standards as time goes on. And we’ve had to ramp those up. You know, Dragon and I have known each other for twnety-eight years, and have been through a lot. We were missionaries together back in 1992. And so we have a level of trust between us and I know that he really takes the health and safety of those, including myself, to heart. It’s important. It’s a danger place. There is a real liability associated with entering this property.

GK: I’m not sure if you’re able to talk about this, but I know that there was a professional from Las Vegas, who visited the property, was interested and it might’ve even been a partner at some point, who passed away. Is that at all related to his time on the ranch, or do you know?

BF: I’m not sure, to be honest. I think that it’s inconclusive, right now. I’m not sure. We were sad to hear of his passing and, you know, he had some pretty dramatic experiences when he visited the ranch. It was something that was kind of at the top of his bucket list. He brought his own security detail for the day when he flew in. And so it’s unfortunate that he that he passed, but I’m not sure whether there is any evidence that it is tied to his visit to the ranch or not.

GK: I think his security guy, a great big guy, he had his own experience there, right? He was basically immobilized, if I’m remembering the same story.

BF: Correct. Correct. We, we actually delve into that in detail in the investigative series because it’s one of the most compelling experiences because you have multiple witnesses. You had an individual who’d never had a supernatural encounter. In fact, he came out as a hardened skeptic that day and, ended up very, very ill and had an experience that was, was pretty frightening. And it shook our team as well. I was witness to what happened. So it’s very real, It’s it’s something you have to you have to keep in mind. There has to be a real degree of caution. And I want to stress reverence when you enter the property. I know this is gonna sound foolish to some, but we really feel like we we need to armor ourselves before entering the property. And, you know, my brother, who is our pilot, who runs the aviation interests of our family, he’s very strict about offering a prayer before even entering the airspace surrounding the property. And it’s something that we we take seriously. Going in with the right spirit, I think is important because we’re dealing with the unknown.

GK: Absolutely. I mean, the people who have had, I’ll put it this way…during the Bigelow era, the people who had the worst and most dramatic experiences were those who went in sort of cocky about the whole thing. I’m not afraid of this. A lot of them packing weapons and wanna have a confrontational sort of attitude. And they’re the ones that really had trouble. And I don’t know if that has been sort of the same experience during your era there or not, but that’s what they reported.

BF: Oh, yeah. The ranch has humbled many people, including myself.

GK: Is there a specific incident or you want to save that one?

BF: We’ll save that. There are a number that I look forward to sharing in the future and I have no problem, again, disclosing what we have discovered and what we’re observing and the data that we have been gathering relative to the property. Again, if our project, if our investigation, ends up proving that we aren’t alone in the universe or our reality is is a lot more complex than conventional physics would lead us to believe, I think we truly may have the greatest science project of our time here.

GK: We’re talking with Brandon Fugal, owner of the Skinwalker Ranch, a new TV series debuts Tuesday on the History Channel. We’re going to talk a little bit more about the series. And I think there’s a live, webcam where you can watch the ranch for several hours. It might be up right now. I’m going to ask Brandon about that as we go into the next segment. And a little bit later, we’ll open up the phone lines, you can get into question or two in our second hour coming up.


ref: Transcript: Skinwalker Ranch Owner & Real Estate Mogul, Brandon Fugal ? Part 1 ? “I Think We Truly May Have The Greatest Science Project Of Our Time Here” ≫ Joe Murgia - http://www.ufojoe.net/knapp-interviews-fugal-part1


(2020-04-02)





(以下、2020-04-13 追加分)

part-2



Transcript: Skinwalker Ranch Owner & Real Estate Mogul, Brandon Fugal - Part 2 - Our Team Was Summoned To DC To Give Testimony. A Number Of [Government] Agencies & Programs Are Monitoring The Ranch
5 APR , 2020

“Our team was summoned, in the past, to Washington DC, to give testimony and to report on what we have been observing on the property. There appears to be a very real, sincere interest on the part of a number of agencies and programs that that are at least monitoring what is happening, relative to reports on the ranch. And, you know, they seem sincere.” ~Brandon Fugal

By Joe Murgia - @ufojoe11 on Twitter

For a brief history of the ranch, check out this History.com article. Wanna delve deeper? I suggest you start out by reading this recent article by MJ Banias and watch this excellent lecture by award-winning, investigative reporter, George Knapp. You should also read the book, “Hunt for the Skinwalker ” by Knapp and biochemist, Colm Kelleher and watch the documentary, “Hunt for the Skinwalker” by filmmaker and investigator, Jeremy Corbell.

For those of you who don’t have time for all that, Skinwalker Ranch, located in northeastern Utah, is the most scientifically studied paranormal hotspot in the world. It was the catalyst for the U.S. government’s AAWSAP study into UFOs and paranormal phenomena. For more on that aspect, check out this fantastic article by researcher, Tim McMillan.

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Coast To Coast AM - March 29th, 2020 - Hour 2

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2020/03/29

George Knapp (GK): We have a real exclusive here with Brandon Fugal, owner of the Skinwalker Ranch who’s agreed to stay with us for another hour and talk about what’s been happening out there. One of the scariest, spookiest aspects of the ranch is the phenomenon that’s been referred to as hitchhikers. And the Native Americans that I encountered there years ago had first told me about this. And then a lot of the people who were involved with the secret government study under BAASS, a DIA project that we’ll discuss with Brandon…they had these experiences of themselves. And what happens at Skinwalker doesn’t always stay at Skinwalker. It follows people home. I want to get into that aspect and also talk about the secrecy that surrounded the place for a long time, whether it was justified. We’ll be right back with more on Coast to Coast AM.

Brandon, we were talking about risks of those who visit the property. Who has what kind of an experience has a lot to do with what kind of attitude they have going in. I’ve always tried to prepare, sort of mentally gird my loins, I guess, when I’m going on to the property and it seemed to have worked. But for a lot of people, what happens there doesn’t stay there, it follows them home. I wonder if any of you or your team have experienced that?

Brandon Fugal (BF): Good question. I haven’t. So, for what it’s worth, I haven’t had anything, thankfully, follow me home. And so I haven’t experienced that in four years. My team, on the other hand, several members of the team have had pretty extreme incidents of high strangeness, as they call it, that had followed them home. Some more disturbing than others. And it’s hard to predict. And it’s even harder to anticipate what to expect, not only when you’re on the property, but I guess when you leave the property and may have something. I guess, follow you But I’ve never had that experience myself and I’m thankful for it.

GK: The term Skinwalker, of course it goes along with Native American history, sort of the umbrella term that that the Utes have used to describe what goes on at the property, to explain it. An umbrella term that lumps a variety of different phenomena that have happened on the property, together. I know you have delved into the history of the property. I wonder how much interaction you’ve had with the tribe and whether or not they’ve verified to you that that is, in fact, what they believe?

BF: Yeah. Very, very good questions. We’ve had a number of Native American elders out to the property. I mentioned earlier that we’ve tried to approach the property with the degree of reverence and that includes respect for the neighboring tribes and for the history of the area. And we’ve really worked to forge, I think, a stronger relationship of trust and respect. I have to give credit to Jim Morse, who is really headed up those efforts of the community. He’s raised millions of dollars for Native American charities, scholarship funds, you name it, and he really is adored by so many of the tribal leaders. And the Skinwalker aspect of this is just as real to them as driving down the street. It’s an interesting part of their lore, their heritage, and it’s something that we’re aware of. And it’s something that is difficult to wrap one’s mind around if you’re not from culture of that background. But it’s definitely a key part of the history that runs through this property. In fact, the mesa, as we call it, that, that runs the expanse of the property from east to west, has been referred to as Skinwalker Ridge. And that’s really, from what I was told, and through our research, that was really how the property was kind of given its name or its identity. And this is definitely steeped in a lot of lore and history, going back to the 1800s, especially with the tribes and some of the contention.

GK: I know you’ve done a lot of work digging into records about the previous owners. We know that, you know, the story that’s told in our book, about the ranch family that I called the Gorman’s, that they had dramatic experiences for the twenty months that they live there and beyond. But the previous owners said, “No, no, we never saw any of that stuff”. What do you make of that? And I know that there are limits…

BF: No, it’s a bunch of bunk. So one of the things that I’m quite proud of is that we’ve been able to pull together an archival history of the ranch and the surrounding area. And I’ll tell you, there are reports that go back to the the original homesteaders, back to the 1930s, of, you know, bizarre cattle mutilations that were brought to the attention of law enforcement. Even back into the 30s. We have reports from the early 1980s that date directly to the previous owners, the Myers, that had the property before the Shermans. And this is before this property was really on the radar or really reported to be a center of interest ,at least. So I have a hard time with the criticism that people often are quick to give regarding, you know, the Shermans and Bigelow, and that, you know, that all of this was brought on brought by them. That it was all a figment of their imaginations or was a product of their occupation on the property or their, you know, whatever was going on. When in fact we have, I mean, we’re talking numerous accounts and very credible accounts of individuals who both lived on the property and had family members that worked on the property, that had strange encounters that frankly, defy explanation and are consistent with what we are seeing to this day. Explain that.

GK: Yeah. I mean, 200 plus years, it’s not something that Bob Bigelow or the military created. Or you, for that matter, you know? The big criticism of Bigelow, and I will admit going into this question that he’s a friend of mine, and he has allowed me to be a fly on the wall regarding the ranch, for a long time, to one degree or another. But the criticism that he plays his cards pretty close to the vest. It’s true. He’s always done that but, you know, during the NIDS era, I think he wanted a real low profile because there is an interactive quality to what goes on out there, as you just described. People who trespass or come onto the property, not only put themselves at risk, but also could gum up the works or whatever research you might be doing. So, as you have done, with your security, they tried to do that as well and tried to keep it on the down low. When the BAASS program was underway, the DIA study, for those three years, of course, they had another reason for secrecy imposed on them by a government agency but, you know, obviously, you have been able to turn that around and are ready to tell what you know, which is really refreshing.

BF: Yeah, I want to take a more collaborative transparent, approach. And you know, a big part of that, George, is we’re opening the ranch up for a live feed tomorrow. Reddit and Newsweek just were kind enough to help facilitate it with our team. And Eric Bard and our team out there have made it possible to engage people in a way that I don’t think would have ever been imagined or considered in the past. I mean, people are going to be able to actually tune in and pull up a live feed, and be able to witness, from any number of different angles, what we see on an hour to hour, minute to minute basis out there. And some of it may be boring but you never know what may pop up on the feed. We’ve learned that. And so, it’s part of this new age of collaboration and wanting to demonstrate our openness and really, our sincere desire to discover what is really going on out there. I mean, I’ve wanted to engage the public and to have them participate in a very tangible way in our journey. So I’m excited. I hope people participate. I think it doesn’t cost anything. It’s offered, I believe free. But anyhow, it’s an exciting part of what we’re doing.

GK: Well, I know I’ll be watching and we’ll post the link on Coast to Coast at the appropriate time and then Tuesday night, the TV show debuts. And that also is part of your effort to increase the transparency of what goes on there. But I imagine again, you know, when you increase the profile of the property, you know it’s an invitation to trespassers, and interlopers, vandals. I mean, that happened a lot when the when the book came out, “Hunt for the Skinwalker.” All kinds of people descended on the property, taking, sneaking onto it, ripping off the gates and fences and taking souvenirs and having little beer parties. And, you know, it creates a lot of problems for…

BF: Yeah, people are very disrespectful. And it’s sad, because I don’t think people realize that we really are engaged in a serious investigation. I mean, this is a scientific research project and in order to maintain the integrity of that project, I mean, wwe have to have a secure site. And you know, violating that security, compromises the nature of what we’re trying to record. It compromises the data. And I don’t think people take that into consideration and it’s really unfortunate. But my hope is that people in the future will be respectful and a big part of agreeing to this show is really my effort to engage the public and I want people to see behind the scenes. I want them to have, really, a look into the ranch and into exactly what we are doing in order to really discover the truth, to really discover the secret of Skinwalker Ranch.

GK: Share with me, sort of the arrival of the TV crew. Because again, we’re talking about balancing risks versus rewards. When you bring people on, you put them at risk to some degree, and I’m sure at least some of them were aware of what kind of risks there were. Others might have been totally dismissive of the whole thing.

BF: Ah, you know, yeah, that is that is true. I would say that the majority, if not all of the crew that came in from LA, were very vocal skeptics. I think they thought that it was that it was all a bunch of baloney but it was a job and they were there to document what was happening. But we required everyone to sign NDAs and also, liability agreements, acknowledging that there was a danger involved, that people have been hurt, that there that there is unexplained phenomena. They had to acknowledge that going in. And we require that of anyone who enters the property, as part of the investigation, whether they be a vendor or a contractor or someone involved in this case, as your pointing out, with the crew. And I would dare say that the crew that came out and were there for months, that mobilized on site with our team, I think…I would be surprised if there was one of them that left skeptical or at least left without scratching their head. And saying well, they…admitting honestly that they have witnessed things that they simply cannot describe, or in some cases, really explain away.

Dr. Taylor, you know, Travis Taylor, who we brought on, to really engage and challenge the team, and really elevate this from being an observational science exercise, to something, I think, a little bit more aggressive. You know, Dr. Taylor came on as a skeptic. I think he thought that we were all pretty silly. And even shown the evidence, I think he really wasn’t willing to concede that there was something truly unexplained or extraordinary going on and, you know, as has been reported, he left also scratching his head. And we’ll be bringing him back. In fact, he’s now a key member of the team, along with Dr. Jim Sagala, who has really been advising Eric Bard. So, interesting times.

GK: You know, as a tendency, I think, with the ranch, of new eyewitnesses, people come to the property, they may be skeptical at first, and then they have an experience and they’re no longer skeptical. But they are skeptical of what other people saw, you know, critical of, “Well, I know I saw something, but I don’t believe the other stuff.” It’s just, I guess human nature, comes with the territory.

BF: Sure. Well, it’s…

GK: Now that your name is out there, I imagine there are all kinds of requests from people you know, to visit the property. The public certainly wants to go. I mean, it’s natural for people to be curious about it. Journalists are probably flooding you. What was it like, right after your name came out? What was the day in your life, like?

BF: Oh dear. I get enough calls, just with the various office parks and real estate development projects that I have a responsibility to. And, you know, to be hit with a wave of requests, it’s quite surprising. And I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised. But I think it’s important for people to realize that, again, we’re trying to be inclusive, but there are liability issues associated with the ranch. We can’t just open it up for tours, for the public. Because it, you know, bad things happen there, from time to time. I mean, people have been seriously injured, have ended up in the hospital. And again, we’re in the middle of conducting a serious scientific investigation on the property and we, you know, we can’t have that compromised.

And so, again, engaging with the public and really agreeing to this investigative series with History is key. I’ve been getting a lot of crap from people over, you know, partnering with History, and, you know, having them as the medium to bring this forward. And, you know, it’s easy to be a critic these days, especially online, on the Internet, but, you know…

GK: Oh, yeah.

BF: When you’re trying to disseminate information and you’re trying to engage the public and be open, transparent and do it right, in a first class fashion, I mean, there are very few outlets that frankly, will touch this with a ten-foot pole, no matter what evidence you show them. And people are understandably frightened of the topic. I mean, there’s a reason why most credible business people in my position would never submit to being involved or at least admitting involvement or an interest in this topic, because it’s treacherous. You end up getting torn apart. And it’s funny, it’s not only getting torn apart by the skeptics, you get torn apart by the very people who should be championing your cause. That’s been one thing that is really eye opening to me. is, you know, so-called UFOlogists. I mean, I swear, they are their own worst enemy. You know, I think if people tried to check their egos and have an open mind and try to look at half glass, you know, the glass half full, look at this as an abundance type of opportunity, as opposed to scarcity. I think we’d be getting a lot more done. I mean, one of the reasons why I think we’ve seen, you know, a lot of challenges with really bringing forward concrete, scientific proof and validation regarding the reality of this phenomena is because, you know, people end up undermining each other so dramatically. And I can only imagine if there are covert interests or others that are trying to suppress the truth, they probably sit back and just grab their popcorn and have a good laugh at the circus that ensues. Because it’s quite, I think, discouraging, at times. There’s a reason why a lot of the key figures in this space have now elected not to participate or at least have a social media presence. I don’t blame them.

GK: Oh. Can I get an amen? I mean, you know, you’re talking about my life for the last thirty years. I’ve seen your efforts on social media, Twitter in particular, where you try to engage the public, tell them what you’re doing, what’s coming up. And it’s just slam bam, just negativity, hostility. I’m amazed at your patience in responding to people who are overtly hostile, who have no interest in actually having a dialogue. They just want to score points.

BF: Yeah, I understand the skepticism. I really do. Because I’ve watched it from the sidelines and looked at this field of inquiry over the years and it is littered with a lot of con men. It’s littered with a lot of really bad science and in very little scientific rigor and a lot of cases. And frankly, a lot of people that are, I don’t know how else to put it, but they’re just not credible.

GK: I’ll tell you what, we’ll come back to that, Brandon. Hold on that thought. We’re also going to talk about government interest in it. Talking to Brandon Fugal, owner of Skinwalker Ranch.

You all recall that headline in December of 2017, The New York Times reveals the existence of a secret, Pentagon program called AATIP. And when that news came out, it was accompanied by some videos, that were released, of encounters between the U.S. Navy and these strange craft with seemingly magical powers. That was a huge story. It turned the UFO world upside down. What was not known at the time, at least not by the general public, was that that program had its roots at Skinwalker Ranch. We’re going to get into government interest in the property, whether it’s still interested. And then, in our final segment with my guest, Brandon Fugal, at the top of the hour, then we’re going to be joined by filmmaker, Jeremy Corbell and pop star, Robbie Williams, who both visited the property two years ago this month, at the invitation of Brandon, and had one heck of a time. So we’ll be right back. We’ll take a couple of your calls and cover a lot more ground about Skinwalker Ranch, right after this.

Brandon, as far back as the ranch family that owned the property before Bob Bigelow bought it, they had told the NIDS investigators that they would occasionally see what they presumed were military folks. Helicopters would flyover or, you know, people in SUVs and with binoculars, checking out the property. And then, of course, as we now know, the AATIP program was actually something else called AAWSAP, that was initiated by the DIA. Bob Bigelow had a contract with them. They were studying the property and a much broader spectrum of issues. And I wanted to know if you’ve had either, outreach from government to ask you what’s going on there or, a request for partnership or any indications that somebody is…you’re under surveillance out there by unknown parties?

BF: Good questions. I first and foremost, in response, I’ve had no interest in partnership with the government. Not because I don’t love my country. I love being an American. We live in the greatest country in the world and are very blessed and fortunate to be here and to to be part of this incredible United States of America. But I just did not want my investigation ever to be compromised and really have no interest in partnering or being involved or taking money from any government-related enterprise. That said, in direct response to your question, yes, I have been approached and we, you know, our team was summoned, in the past, to Washington DC, to give testimony and to report on what we have been observing on the property. There appears to be a very real, sincere interest on the part of a number of agencies and programs that that are at least monitoring what is happening, relative to reports on the ranch. And, you know, they seem sincere. And I, in the spirit of collaboration, again, I didn’t have any problem presenting the evidence and the data that we had collected. And I felt like it was a demonstration, at least on my part and my team’s part, that we really do consider this a stewardship and we’re sincerely focused on the facts. And really utilizing real, scientific rigor.

The one thing that disappointed me was the lack of exchange. I mean, it seems that, you know, everyone wants information. Everyone wants us to impart that which we have learned, which is great, and we’re happy to share, but we see very little exchange. And that’s a little disappointing. That’s probably been one of the more disappointing aspects of my journey, is that I’ve, I felt like we were kind of, in a lot of ways, on our own. Which is both, you know, exciting, but it’s, you know, it’s surprising as well in that, you know, I would have expected a little bit more of a cooperative exchange. But that’s…hey, let the chips fall. I don’t really care. I mean, we’re running a privately funded and manned program and investigation and I think that has really helped this maintain the integrity of what we’re doing. And also, it allows us to, I think, share what we’re doing with the public. I think one thing that Mr. Bigelow was challenged with, is I think he and his his people were dealing with classified information, and I’m sure there there were, you know, non disclosure agreements in place. And I respect that. I completely respect that they need to honor those. But we’re approaching this from a different angle.

GK: The premise of the AAWSAP study, which is…BAASS was the contractor for the DIA, is that there are national security implications for what has been reported at the ranch. I don’t know exactly what that is. Maybe you know, wormholes, holes in the sky, beings coming in and out from someplace else, an intelligence operating there. Do you agree that there are national security implications?

BF: Well, yeah. I think when you’re seeing objects and phenomena that are seemingly violating our airspace, that aren’t showing up on on radar, or, you know, or really operating, behaving the way that conventional craft would behave, I think it, it should raise questions. I would think that there are implications. And I would think it would be of great interest. I’m glad that there has been, I think, a more serious effort to bring the truth to light. I think that the New York Times story and the other journalism, the other reports that have now come forward and, you know, everything from your fighter pilots to others that have had the courage to go on record, relative to what they’ve seen. I think it really shows that we may be entering a new era of disclosure or at least honesty. And I think that’s refreshing. I would think that anyone who does their due diligence and looks into this field of inquiry, has to look at it from an honest perspective and has to admit that there is some real compelling evidence. We’ve seen it at Skinwalker Ranch.

GK: We’ll take a couple of calls, starting with west of the Rockies. Howard in Vancouver. Hi Howard, you’re on with Brandon Fugal.

Howard: Hello George and Brandon. I have a question for you. I know that animals seem to have a heightened awareness of things of a paranormal nature. And I’m wondering if you’ve noticed if this phenomenon has any effect on the wildlife in that area?

BF: Ah, good question. Yes. The answer is yes, we have. We’ve actually recorded on many, many occasions, animals responding to unseen forces that’s…although not picked up on camera surveillance, leave other trace evidence, if you will. And I don’t know what to make of the whole cattle mutilation phenomena. I, you know, it’s complex, and it’s disturbing, but we’ve seen, you know, what appears to be a continuation of some of that out in the area. And I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s definitely something that we’ve had to take into account. So the answer is yes. Absolutely.

Thanks for that call. Howard. We know that previous studies used animals, dogs in particular, as sort of biosensors. They would catch on to something that might be coming the way of the investigators before the human saw it. I’m sure you probably did some of that as well. Yeah.

BF: Well, we have, you know, our ranch dog, you know, that accompanies our security on patrols. William has really been a key part of our team. And it’s interesting to see him respond. He, you know, the dog, interestingly, appears to, in many cases, anticipate just before something happens. You can see the dog reacting to something that ultimately ends up showing up, whether it be on trifield meters or whatever. And so I think having biosensors out there, I think that’s important. We’ve tried to maintain, you know, some traditional ranching activities and, you know, introduce cattle to the property and some other interesting animals that you’ll see
on the series.

GK: (Laughs) Animals that don’t fall into any known category?

BF: Well, animals that traditionally you wouldn’t see on a ranch like this.

GK: You know, we’ve heard these reports in the last couple of months that, what goes on out there, allegations that it’s testing of secret military equipment. Any indications that that’s what’s been going on?

BF: You know, I haven’t seen anything that would indicate that. I haven’t seen any evidence, since acquiring the property, that that is going on. You know, I don’t want to be dismissive of, you know, experiences people have had or concerns. You know, we try to show great respect, especially to those who have who’ve served on the property prior to our program. But we really haven’t seen it. And, you know, the team, most notably like Dr. Taylor, who’s just been very vocal about it, but also, Eric Bard and Dr. Sagala, are still, you know, scratching their heads at some of these claims and reports because we’re seeing something that seems to defy explanation. Even that as an explanation.

GK: East of the Rockies, Josh, in Indiana, you’re on with Brandon. What’s on your mind?

Josh: Hi, George. Thanks for taking my call. I realize, Brandon, with my question, that there’s probably a certain level of, I don’t know, hypothetical or abstract nature to the question, but obviously, this phenomenon has shown some level of intelligence in its evasion or avoidance of being documented. But do you feel like it has any awareness or consciousness as to the potential for this greater information of this disclosure that could come about with the History Channel series? And if so, what level of impact will that have, if it does gain that awareness, on future activity?

BF: Good question. I think there is evidence that there really is anintelligence at work. I think it is both ignorance and arrogance for us to think that, you know, an entity or intelligence that can literally manipulate, you know, sophisticated surveillance systems, you know, manipulate the very consciousness of those who are on the property, they wouldn’t be aware of what what is happening and even be able to potentially anticipate what is going on. And I think that’s why we we try to approach the property and what we’re doing with a degree of humility and reverence. I think we’re truly dealing with an advanced intelligence, again, just by virtue of just the data and the ability for whatever is going on, to be able to perform astounding feats on this property.

GK: So is it aware of, I guess he’s asking, is it aware of you? Is it watching you, watching it?

BF: Yeah, I would assume so. And we have conducted our research and really our activities in a way that acknowledges that they’re very well aware of what we’re doing and we try to be respectful.

GK: In a sense, that’s a form of communication.

BF: Yeah, indeed.

GK: On the international line, we go to rob in Canada. Hi, Rob. What’s on your mind?

Rob: Hi, great show. Thanks for letting me ask the question. Given the uniqueness that this is a fixed location, I would have thought in the past that they probably would have laced this place with sensors. And different electronic equipment. Have you done anything along those lines and found anything unique? Whether it be like different anomalies and so on?

BF: Oh, yes, that’s a very good question. You know, we have seismic instrumentation on the property…infrasonic sensors. And, you know, one thing that I actually thought we would observe is that a lot of the phenomena may be somehow attributed to seismic activity. We see luminous phenomena reported globally, in association with seismic activity, and I thought that would be an actual natural explanation for what was happening or at least, creating it. One thing that we’ve been surprised by and our team of scientists have have been baffled by the fact, that the ranch as compared to the rest of, not only the basin, but, you know, the greater Utah area, experiences very little to no, seismic activity. When other areas surrounding the basin, or even in the basin, experience a seismic event, it is interesting to note that we have not seen the same level of seismic activity or any activity. Which, again, it’s a head scratcher. It’s something that we’re looking into further.

GK: Thanks for the call. You know, I’ve seen the teasers for the TV series and it looks like there’s some activity going into the ground, which, you know, a lot of what we’ve reported over the years, that the suspicion was that there was something down there. That you feel the ground shaking, there’s sounds that seem to come from the ground. Can you say anything about that part of the investigation?

BF: Sure. Yeah. We’ve recorded sounds that we still have yet to be able to attend any type of explanation on and really be able to identify the origin of where it’s originating. It’s not, you know, it’s not attributed to, you know, your traditional mining activity that is very prevalent out there. We’ve identified and locked in on the unique, you know, signatures associated with that kind of activity and what we’re monitoring, quite often, does not fall within that range. And it’s interesting.

GK: I want to go back to the phones in a second if we have time, but I wanted to give you a chance…we got about a minute, Brandon, I wanted to give you a chance to talk about the series. It debuts Tuesday night. How many episodes? How excited are you for it? What will people see?

BF: Eight episodes. Eight, one-hour episodes. I’m very excited. I’m excited because we had a lot of things happen. And we have a lot of data that we’re looking to present and a lot of very real footage. And, in the moment, evidence of what we have been experiencing over the course of the last four years. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised. You know, there are a lot of unanswered questions, but that’s, you know, welcome to science. Welcome to discovery. But it’s, I think this is something that we’re very proud of, and we’d like to continue, hopefully, in the future, but we’ll see. I’m very, very confident that what we’re about to present is groundbreaking, at least in this this field of interests.

GK: That’s awesome. I can’t wait to see it. I’m so glad that you got a high profile platform like this to share the information with the world. And thanks for being here. Thanks for being so open and helpful to us over the years. And I look forward to cooperating with you and seeing what and hearing what comes next.

BF: Oh, you’re a class act, George, and appreciate the association and look forward to learning the truth. And the truth is out there.

GK: Thanks, Brandon. I’ll talk to you soon. Thank you for being here.


ref: Transcript: Skinwalker Ranch Owner & Real Estate Mogul, Brandon Fugal - Part 2 - Our Team Was Summoned To DC To Give Testimony. A Number of [Government] Agencies & Programs Are Monitoring The Ranch ≫ Joe Murgia - http://www.ufojoe.net/knapp-interviews-fugal-part2


(2020-04-13)


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